Pages of Tragedy

Hi..
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<br>The cover song was recorded at the same time as Assembly but we left it out of the album due to various reasons. Anyway the song was "Keep me hangin on". Cheezy 80`s <!--emo&--><img src='http://www.theatreoftragedy.com/board/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<br>It might be released on a single or EP in the future... Maybe...
<br>If not, I am pretty sure you will propably find it on Audiogalaxy together with the rest of our material...
<br>That`s all for now...
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<br>Lorentz

Lorentz, can I sense some bitterness in that statement? :roll:
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<br>I know that if I was an artist, I'd be pissed off if my hard work was downloadable for free..
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<br>hopefully, internet can render the record companies obsolete, but it'll take some time before people are ready to pay for downloads..

Well Paz, it`s a win and loose situation... kind of...
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<br>I like the free and very good publicity it comes with... but dislike the fact that we loose some of our income...
<br>The thing I really hate with it, is a sad fact for the band and also for the fans...
<br>Example: We sell 6000 copies in a country. Each recordowner copies the album to a friend (12000), the record-owner and friend recommends the album to 2 friends they download it form the net or copies it.
<br>Ok on the paper we have sold 6000 copies. this means that it is to risky for us to do a decent tour and the company cannot give us any support due to the low salesfigures... But the fact is that there are 36000 with our album in their collection. If we would have these figures on the sales papers we could go on a tour in this country...
<br>So it isn`t only sad for us in the band but also for the fans that wants to see us live.
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<br>I use the net myself to check out some new stuff before I decide to buy it.
<br>And to get hold of rare remixes or releases which I like.
<br>I would never download a whole album from the net becuase
<br>- The soundquality sucks
<br>- You don`t get the artwork,cover and info about the album with.
<br> (Yeah I know you can print it out, but it is not the same)
<br>- Most Cd-r`s lack of quality and lifetime
<br>- It is bloody boring to download.
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<br>In conclusion ???
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<br>Thanks for your time....
<br>I will come back and use it some more......
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>Lorentz

"I know that if I was an artist, I'd be pissed off if my hard work was downloadable for free..
<br>
<br>hopefully, internet can render the record companies obsolete, but it'll take some time before people are ready to pay for downloads.."
<br>
<br>Personally I'll pay if I respect the artist. Which renders most pop and bands like Metallica obsolete. They don't need money anyway. I say dl all you want from Metallica. But yeah. Most people just want all they can for free from anyone. I think Audiogalaxy should be used for two reasons
<br>1)as a tool for discovering new bands
<br>2)as a way to get one or two songs off an album where the rest of them are crap. Lots of bands will release albums like that, and it's BS. I'm not going to pay $17 for a single song.
<br>Why don't you guys go to Audiogalaxy with complaints? Have them block all your songs except like, one or two from each album or something...that way people can still learn about you and figure out if they like the style enough to buy the albums, but they don't become freeloaders...just a suggestion.

It's pretty difficult for them to block artists songs, cause the fans always find ways to get it through anyways. By using codes, calling the songs by other names etc. It's nearly impossible to keep it all off the net. And once someone has figured out how to, there are thousands of other programs just waiting to take over!
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<br>As the stupid idiot I am, I download the songs and artists I like on the net, and then go out and by the exact same songs on the original cd's... but as Lorentz say, you don't just get a better quality and cd's that last longer, you get the artwork, the cover.. the whole package.. and I prefer that to a cheap cd-r!! And those programs are genious when it comes to getting hold of songs you'd otherways NEVER be able to find elsewhere!

lol, just noticed that my last post was my 100th!! Yay for me!

I do the same thing!!! I'll d/l the album or part of it, then go out and frantically find it in a store and buy it. I love being able to look at the booklet and listen....I love to see the artwork and the hard work put behind it. Plus I would be putting myself out of the art business if I didn't......I would have no future!!!!!!!!!! <!--emo&--><img src='http://www.theatreoftragedy.com/board/html/emoticons/laugh.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='laugh.gif'><!--endemo-->

"It's pretty difficult for them to block artists songs, cause the fans always find ways to get it through anyways. By using codes, calling the songs by other names etc. It's nearly impossible to keep it all off the net"
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<br>Yes. That really is true...but I mean, what other choices are there? :?
<br>Take a stand guys!! Otherwise, as Lorentz said, they won't be able to get support to tour! And dammit I want them to tour. I know they can't come to Alaska because the market is too small, but I'd be willing to drive through Canada, seriously.
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<br>"As the stupid idiot I am, I download the songs and artists I like on" the net, and then go out and by the exact same songs on the original cd's... but as Lorentz say, you don't just get a better quality and cd's that last longer, you get the artwork, the cover.. the whole package.. and I prefer that to a cheap cd-r!! And those programs are genious when it comes to getting hold of songs you'd otherways NEVER be able to find elsewhere!"
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<br>I've occassionally bought whole CDs after hearing the band from the internet, so I know what you're talking about, but usually I go the idiot asshole route and say "well, hell, I already have the songs. i cant see the cd art while its in the player...and I guess I don't NEED the book...I'll just buy a DVD instead." and I'm trying to change that.
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<br>it's working....a little...
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<br>and I've noticed that I haven't even been here a week and I have the "Advanced user" thing by my name, so <!--emo&--><img src='http://www.theatreoftragedy.com/board/html/emoticons/tongue.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tongue.gif'><!--endemo--> hopefully no one is terribly annoyed by my presense and the fact I post a lot...?

Well, then at least my name isn't the only one popping up alot <!--emo&--><img src='http://www.theatreoftragedy.com/board/html/emoticons/tongue.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tongue.gif'><!--endemo-->
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<br>Ok, so now we've got idiots and idiot-assholes.. any other terms we need to know? *smirk*
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<br>But you have to admit.. a cd-r doesn't look as good in a cd-shelf as a original!!!

I agree with previous posters, I do the same thing: Use audiogalaxy for checking out new artists (or new directions of artists like ToT).
<br>If I like it, I buy it.
<br>It's much harder when I get a copied cd from a friend, then I usually have to really adore the album to buy it.
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<br>I have to object on one thing lorentz said though, about the lifespan of cd-r's... They have a longer lifespan than "real" cd's. so that is not a good argument for buying cd's, rather for making backups of cd's you really like.
<br>the calculations differ, some say it takes 20, others 100-200 years for the cd to lose it's information..
<br>I want to play my ToT-records to my grandchilren!

Ok some CD-R`s are good quality but that is the minority. And I guess most of the people buy "no-label" Cd-R`s and they suck big time.
<br>When you burn CD`s you have a failure rate and the percentage increases if you have a bad cd-burner and a bad disc. So all in all you loose information.
<br>About the lifespan I can only guess that the bad discs are not as good as the more expensive and better discs and the prerecorded ones. Because we are just now getting close to 20th birthday of the CD and there is no way one can put out statistics without any real facts......
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<br>But as I may have said earlier, I appreciate good sound and good equipment. And therfore it is in my nature to talk bad about the things that is the opposite...
<br>The best is always to go to a good sounding venue and hear people playing. Nothing beats that sound....
<br>
<br>Lorentz

sometimes live can be nice, but generally I prefer albums..
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<br>I'm a perfectionist.
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<br>and I don't like when one guitar can't be heard, like it was one the stockholm gig last year... poor Frank!

I know it must be very frustrating for artists when their cd's are spread over the internet. But any true fan should do what they can to support their favorite bands, and that means buying their cd's. And they feeling you have after buying a really good cd from your favorite band should be reason enough.and, oh, I really look forward to the concert in may. It gives me a nice feeling and after all life isn't that bad at all. <!--emo&--><img src='http://www.theatreoftragedy.com/board/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&--><img src='http://www.theatreoftragedy.com/board/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> (I just had to remind myself again) -hugz, Luci

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<br>As the stupid idiot I am, I download the songs and artists I like on the net, and then go out and by the exact same songs on the original cd's... but as Lorentz say, you don't just get a better quality and cd's that last longer, you get the artwork, the cover.. the whole package.. and I prefer that to a cheap cd-r!! And those programs are genious when it comes to getting hold of songs you'd otherways NEVER be able to find elsewhere!
<br><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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<br>i'll do the exact same thing. Mabye because i'm a sucker for digi's and other nice packages. i would never have any of my favourite albums on a cheesy cd-r if i could get the real deal.
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<br>and by the way: band, i really loved the closure live package... more cd's like that. it was awesome

I actually didn't see this thread... and made the 'TOT's MP3s on DC' one... I haven't still read everything u c, thats why... <!--emo&--><img src='http://www.theatreoftragedy.com/board/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<br>...just wanted to say that not anyone can always buy the albums that likes... especially here in the freaking UK! Everything is sooo fucking expensive!!! And when you're short of money... its worse...
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<br>Back home in Athens, I can get every vinyl that I like very very cheap... this is because there is a kind of a Bulgarian market that bring Bulgarian releases usually on the half price of the Greek ones... <!--emo&--><img src='http://www.theatreoftragedy.com/board/html/emoticons/laugh.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='laugh.gif'><!--endemo--> (not sooo more expensive than good gold CD-R's) so its better this way... (I agree with all the above for covers, booklets etc)
<br>Also add that vinyls show the power of the music... not the fucking digital cds...
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<br>Something else to Lorenz... I have a Plextor Writer 24x10x40 which really kicks ass... I have burned more than 300 CDs with it and it never even output an error while burning or when closing a CD... unlike other writers... Using my downloaded mp3s which are 192 or 256kbps, please don't say things like quality is bad... You should be joking mate!!!! Quality is 99% pretty much the same if you directly make an audio CD... Hasn't anyone tested this???
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<br>Compression Uncompression ... as simple as this ... <!--emo&--><img src='http://www.theatreoftragedy.com/board/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
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<br>...I'm getting really badly hungry again...

MP3s are only OK for previewing stuff, for demos etc. - not for any normal 'hi-fi'use, so to speak. The compression algorithm takes away too many frequencies when encoding. All harmonies that double, triple etc. a present frequency are cut away, leaving only frequencies where the amplitude's the highest. It's not overly discernible for the human ear, but the clarity, the high end spark and the bottom end punch is lacking, leaving one with a rather dull sound.
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<br>Damn - I've only got Plextor's 16x10x40 <!--emo&--><img src='http://www.theatreoftragedy.com/board/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> It's great nevertheless; never burnt a beer mat, even if I run loads of apps when burning. Rock solid.

...well Raymond, talking about computing, I am usually ripping DVDs to AVIs, editing MATLAB scripts and executing my 12 routine programs, plus having multiple tasks running (like messengers, iexplorer etc) and writting a CDR, all at the same time, without ever even having a warning from Nero...
<br>*cheating*
<br>I have an Asus dual-CPU motherboard (thanks uni <!--emo&--><img src='http://www.theatreoftragedy.com/board/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) with a 756MHz Thunderbird and a 650MHz Duron on it (if only I had some money to get rid the Duron...), both running like hell , with just 3 512MB DIMMs...
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<br>For the quality of the mp3s we'd better blame IEC... they made it ISO... In 3-4 years they will invent a lossless way of compression, be sure for this (like they did with the new lossless jpegs)
<br>Though compressing with a ratio 1:6 is alot better than compressing with a ratio 1:12... didn't say its perfect (its digital anyways), though its enough ok for the human ear... <!--emo&--><img src='http://www.theatreoftragedy.com/board/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<br>We didn't mention that quality also depends on the speaker system as well, and my 80W YST Yamaha speakers are just too perfect to be true...

Let me tell you one thing about the quality Mr. Rohonyi. Back in my hometown, Ankara (Turkey), you can buy Assembly for $17 from the music store at the same time with most of other European cities. However, $17 is equal approximately 24,000,000 Turkish Lira which is hell amount of money most of teenagers don’t have. On the other hand, there is this pirate industry offers the same album for $2.5, in most cases with a professional quality cover and even pamphlet! (It’s not so hard to do this, if you have a good printer). Same thing for popular PC game cds which are originally sold about $30. So let me ask you Mr. Rohonyi and Mr. Aspen: if you were in the same situation, would you care about the quality? Unfortunately they don’t. So, you have a huge amount of fans in Turkey (as opposite of here in Indiana where when I mention about Theatre of Tragedy, people think I’m speaking in Turkish or something!) but you probably have no idea because of your sales figures.
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<br>Another paradox in this issue is that you can’t tour because of the sales while, I believe, live concerts are one of the most effective ways to encourage people for purchasing your album. Couple of months ago, King Diamond was in Istanbul. My brother (who was the person first time stabbed me with the poisonous ToT dagger by the way) made a 8-hour bus trip from his university town (Mersin) to Istanbul to see them live, had to spend a night on the street (not because the ticket line was so long, because he had spent all of his money to purchase the 15-dollar-ticket) and after the concert, first thing he did was asking my father to send him money so he could purchase one of their original albums. Simply speaking, people might be more willing to buy your album if they had a chance to see you live. But alas, capitalism can not tolerate to such humanitarian logic, can it?
<br>Sorry for the long posting but I had to say something.